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Sticky:New dev blog: Next Unified Inventory Update

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 62 post(s)
Vaerah Vahrokha Vahrokh Consulting 1135	Posted - 2012.06.05 07:17:00 - [1] - Quote Am I allowed a constructive comment? I noticed the new UI still takes 9.6 seconds to load the items in a station. It's just few items but they are containers with hundreds of stuff inside. Tip to speed it up tenfold: only load containers content on demand (lazy load) so we only wait on the 1-2 containers we really wanted to open and not all 51. The same applies to POSes and everywhere there's a complex tree. Have it loaded only when requested, not all the time. All the time = huge waste of time and servers queries. Another suggestion. When the user presses the inventory button change the effect to this: 1) If any UI has visible tree => do nothing. 2) If no UI window has visible tree spawn tree UI at center of screen. This will avoid the HUGELY ANNOYING situation where we setup all the station as we want but if there's no tree view you have to start fiddling, expanding and whatever. Auditing \| Collateral holding and insurance \| Consulting \| PLEX for Good Charity Twitter channel
Vaerah Vahrokha Vahrokh Consulting 1140	Posted - 2012.06.05 19:44:00 - [2] - Quote CCP Goliath wrote: Guys, the team isn't stopping working on fixes and improvements, they are changing their release cadence. Next release in 2 days, then another one 12 days after that. The 12 days (7 days development time) isn't going to spent doing no work! Please, I understand that you are angry, upset, etc. Your vitriolic hate is doing you no good - we don't listen harder because you call us worse names. To those who are still keeping it constructive, thanks, and we are working! There are two issues that makes people go "vitriolic". 1) In the past you released many unfinished / buggy features but those were just bugs. This time is the very fundamental design that is done wrong. SCRUM allows for quick and decently easy refactoring, but cannot help when the design choices are just wrong. It's not enough to write the tests, somewhere down the line you have also to think about the design and how it will affect the users. 2) When the beta testers provided feedback you programmers thought to know better than end user. This is a problem I have seen in 20 years of career many, many times. You have to step down off the "I am dev" throne and listen to the puny end users. Some of them could be totally illitterate but you'll see them using the legacy software at blazing speed and could teach you optimized use cases you never thought about. Both of the above issues are usually caused by junior software engineers, I'd honestly like to know how a senior could give the deploy authorization. Auditing \| Collateral holding and insurance \| Consulting \| PLEX for Good Charity Twitter channel
Vaerah Vahrokha Vahrokh Consulting 1173	Posted - 2012.06.06 19:20:00 - [3] - Quote So, how does V3 duct tape look like? Auditing \| Collateral holding and insurance \| Consulting \| PLEX for Good Charity Twitter channel
Vaerah Vahrokha Vahrokh Consulting 1178	Posted - 2012.06.07 07:20:00 - [4] - Quote I also get random "forever spinning" or forever loading containers. Any news for a fix? Auditing \| Collateral holding and insurance \| Consulting \| PLEX for Good Charity Twitter channel
Vaerah Vahrokha Vahrokh Consulting 1183	Posted - 2012.06.07 19:10:00 - [5] - Quote Haifisch Zahne wrote: I just tested SHIFT-RIGHT CLICK. It "works" laughs hysterically at the idea this is working. Oh, now, we ALSO have SHIFT-DOUBLE CLICK?! CLICK, SHIFT-CLICK, SHIFT-DOUBLE CLICK, RIGHT CLICK, SHIFT-RIGHT CLICK. Let me guess, SHIFT-RIGHT DOUBLE CLICK is next?! It could be worse. We could have to press ALT with the neck, power button on computer + Shift reset and extract an USB key. Like those ancient Amiga easter eggs. Auditing \| Collateral holding and insurance \| Consulting \| PLEX for Good Charity Twitter channel
Vaerah Vahrokha Vahrokh Consulting 1183	Posted - 2012.06.07 19:20:00 - [6] - Quote CCP Goliath wrote: Which I assume you mean to be that you do not want to use the tree view at all on basic principle? The team are doing everything they can to make this of minimal impact to you, but the tree view itself is not going anywhere so I hope that you can come to terms with it in some way. There's a reason why MANY softwares have moved the hell away from tree views and implemented tabs. It's called basic, simple sense. Writings are horizontal (western ones). That is, they take lots of horizontal real estate. Tree views make already large windows unnecessarily larger by putting horizontal information to the left of the window. Tabs make large windows functional because they take small vertical real estate and zero horizontal real estate. The very fact you are going against all the accepted modern UI designs and find it good enough to "not going anywhere" is worrysome. You are implementing outdated and unpractical concepts. The day the UI is bug fee, it will still be conceptually wrong. See, many times I wanted to send CCP my curriculum but with decision makers taking this kind of directions and then sticking to them, I would feel embarassed. I would probably be bound to some "you won't publicly state your superiors borked grand time" legal agreement as well so I'd be put together the same people who can think these kinds of designs. No way. Auditing \| Collateral holding and insurance \| Consulting \| PLEX for Good Charity Twitter channel
Vaerah Vahrokha Vahrokh Consulting 1201	Posted - 2012.06.08 09:13:00 - [7] - Quote Here are three trivially easy modifications that would instantly make a LOT of more UI users stop complaining. 1) Shift click on Neocom Inventory spawns a new UI window with tree view. This is a time saver to avoid people having to expand the current UI (usually item hangar) to show tree view and then hide it again. 2) Tree view: double click on an hangar / lab on tree view automatically spawns a new UI that includes all the divisions. This would be a massive time and click saver. If you really program well like I like to, then make it "smart" so that it only opens hangar from 1 to N, where N is the last hangar with a name that is not the default. So you just open the divisions the user gave them a name to. Useful for those using less than 7 divisions. 3) Super Real Estate saving UI window with illustrated screenshots about how to do it. As of now we have a massive waste of space despite a tangible loss of functionality over the old version. Let's start from the current window. Total window height = 217 pixels Useful icons inside inventory space = 119 pixels This proves that with the current design there is an HUGE 45% waste of vertical space. Now, we lived for years with a tiny container fill % hystogram. We can give up a bit on it and save plenty. Furthermore two rows at the bottom are just bad design. I know you also have 1 button hidden somewhere on it, but it's not justification to use so much vertical space. Not even Explorer does that. It asks for optional showing of more info before it shows a second row of information (guess why). Now, I understand not willing to use the title bar (legacy code might refer to windows by "caption text" and thus break). So this is my "keep everyone happy" solution. New window height = 180 pixels Wasted vertical space: 34% This is 11% saved space per window and any power user will have at least 3 open all the time. Now, please do these things. They will greatly improve the players experience. Auditing \| Collateral holding and insurance \| Consulting \| PLEX for Good Charity Twitter channel
Vaerah Vahrokha Vahrokh Consulting 1224	Posted - 2012.06.08 19:19:00 - [8] - Quote Little trivia: guess how outdated the tree view is by looking at this screen shot. Guess what Windows version was it? Yes it's that old. Auditing \| Collateral holding and insurance \| Consulting \| PLEX for Good Charity Twitter channel
Vaerah Vahrokha Vahrokh Consulting 1241	Posted - 2012.06.09 06:10:00 - [9] - Quote Crosi Wesdo wrote: Down with one window. Im looking in containers, not browsing my hard drive. ... and I have 9 Explorer windows open to have all my hard drive contents handy. Oddly enough, those windows remember their positions, spawn easily and I have not used a tree view to open them since early 2000. Oh, despite using the most modern Win 7, the status bars only contain 1 line of text. Have to tell Explorer I want more details to display 2. I wonder why, eh? Edit: The super - rare times I need a tree view, I use an XTree Pro clone that works on Win 7 64 bit and it does 100 times better than EvE's treeview. But hey, XTree came with a wonderful feature, allowing for 2 views at a time. I wonder why, eh? Auditing \| Collateral holding and insurance \| Consulting \| PLEX for Good Charity Twitter channel
Vaerah Vahrokha Vahrokh Consulting 1244	Posted - 2012.06.09 22:57:00 - [10] - Quote Dream Five wrote: I guess the only upside is that it appears judging by the isotope prices that all the bots are broken since the new UI is impossible to use lol No, bots have already been adapted. Permanent Hulkageddon is what makes isotopes mining an exercise of futility. Auditing \| Collateral holding and insurance \| Consulting \| PLEX for Good Charity Twitter channel
Vaerah Vahrokha Vahrokh Consulting 1247	Posted - 2012.06.10 14:28:00 - [11] - Quote Bloodpetal wrote: Adding to #3. Double clicking a container just opened my ship container in a new window. But not the container I wanted to go into... These are the reasons we are frustrated. Also, why containers used to auto close when warping away and now they don't and become a clone of the ship cargo? Auditing \| Collateral holding and insurance \| Consulting \| PLEX for Good Charity Twitter channel
Vaerah Vahrokha Vahrokh Consulting 1254	Posted - 2012.06.10 23:13:00 - [12] - Quote Hawksfield wrote: A war on windows? Really? "The team are doing everything they can to make this of minimal impact to you, but the tree view itself is not going anywhere so I hope that you can come to terms with it in some way." sad thing is that the unified inventory system is so much of a non-game play item. it should not be this much of a fight to get you ccp to realize it needs undoing! so this is my coming to terms with it! CANCEL SUBSCRIPTION! This is a permanent Subs-a-geddon. CCP suicide ganks your subscriptions. You lose your subscription, CCP loses their employees. Oddly enough, nobody is trolling on the GD forum about "Adapt of die" about this. Auditing \| Collateral holding and insurance \| Consulting \| PLEX for Good Charity Twitter channel
Vaerah Vahrokha Vahrokh Consulting 1283	Posted - 2012.06.13 14:16:00 - [13] - Quote CCP Goliath wrote: Your comment about majority is way off. This thread has 113 unique users posting in it. It's called a vocal minority and is very common on forums, and it makes it seem like far more people are angry if you get a 33 page threadnaught going, but the average posts per user in this thread is 4, and 10% of the total posts in it have been made by one user. Approximately 45% of the total posts have been made by the top 10 posters in the thread, of who I am one. Someone trolling our devblog opening is not an indication of "the mood of many players at present". I don't debate that there is a number of people who are disaffected at the moment, but your estimation of their percentage of the player base is grandly overstated. EDIT: "(no gameplay since 22.05.2012)" All this does is tell me that you haven't tried out any of the fixes and are just soapboxing. This is a feedback thread. As I find new issues I add more posts about them. I don't feel guilty or something for multi-posting. I did not know I also had the "perma spinning till you relog 2-3 times" bug at first so I added it later. I posted alternate solutions with screenshots about how to make the layout take less screen real estate. I actually feel I did a good thing to add such a post. I did not know my 9 seconds of wait would turn into 39 for some reason. 39 is WAY too long so here I go, I posted about it again. Not feeling guilty. Auditing \| Collateral holding and insurance \| Consulting \| PLEX for Good Charity Twitter channel
Vaerah Vahrokha Vahrokh Consulting 1283	Posted - 2012.06.13 14:22:00 - [14] - Quote CCP Goliath wrote: Crosi Wesdo wrote: CCP Goliath wrote: You could also try using the "Merge Item and Ship hangar" option in the ESC menu, which will place your item hangar and ship window on the station services panel (it even looks like the old inventory!) I also suggest using the mousewheel if you are having issues clicking the scrollbar due to window height. I have done so for years. Theres a lot of inconsistent behaviour there. But of course you would know that because you obviously watched my video. Hadn't done when I posted, have now. See above for feedback. I got an idea! (So much for multi-posting). Since we got this new Neocom, could you please modify the inventory button as follows: 1) You add a new menu in the Open EvE menu 2) The new menu contains icons to open current ship inventory, ships hangar, corp hangar, items hangar. Pronto, everyone are happy! New players will just hit the 1 inventory button they get when they install the game. We old players find those icons and drag them on our Neocom hot bar and are happy. Please doooo eeeet! Auditing \| Collateral holding and insurance \| Consulting \| PLEX for Good Charity Twitter channel
Vaerah Vahrokha Vahrokh Consulting 1293	Posted - 2012.06.14 08:17:00 - [15] - Quote Jonuts wrote: Oh, and considering that pre-inferno, containers opened in separate windows, I postulate that containers no longer opening in separate windows is a bug report, not a feature request. What possible reason would I have for opening a container in the SAME window after all? If I'm opening one, odds are I'm opening it to move something into or out of it, which works much better with 2 windows. Ergo, it's a bug :) It's not a bug, it's a blatant usability design overlook. Also called "feature". Auditing \| Collateral holding and insurance \| Consulting \| PLEX for Good Charity Twitter channel
Vaerah Vahrokha Vahrokh Consulting 1293	Posted - 2012.06.14 08:19:00 - [16] - Quote Rommiee wrote: Perhaps getting someone in here who CAN answer the question would be more helpful than making some smartass comment This is exactly the attitude that isn't making you any friends here. If the guy in charge replied here, he would make you like CCP Goliath replies a lot more. Auditing \| Collateral holding and insurance \| Consulting \| PLEX for Good Charity Twitter channel

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